"Face the Nation," June 11, 2023

Interview

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You bet.

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Well, I guess we're going to find out.

Yes, I mean, look, if -- if half of what they say they can prove is provable, then he's got a real problem on our hands. And it's self- inflicted. Let's remember that. This is a -- he had every chance in the world to hand all those files and documents back. He did just the opposite. He bragged about keeping them.

So, this is very self-inflicted. I mean, I guess we'll find out, of the 37 or whatever charges there are, how many he's potentially found guilty on. So we'll -- we'll see where it goes, and what's disqualifying and not.

But I think you know, that last segment you had was -- was really telling. It's just another example that he could win the nomination, but cannot, mathematically cannot, win in November of '24, which is why the Republican Party needs to look to another candidate, and they've got a lot of great options before them.

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Yes.

So, this is the problem that the Department of Justice has. And -- and whether you want to agree with it or not doesn't matter. The reality is, a lot of people are looking at that kind of cloud that sits over the DOJ, and says there has been a little too much politics in that department over the past couple of years.

There's been a lot of allegations of political handling. So, they have the responsibility to say, look, this is different. This is much more severe.

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And I think they have to do that.

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Yes, well -- yes, but you can't equivo -- yes, if I may, you can't equivocate the two.

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Right? So you have folks on -- on the -- on the -- yes,equate the two. Sorry.

But look, those are politicians. They're -- they're on the Republican side. For the most part, they're going to defend a political position. The DOJ has a responsibility to be above it all, and should be and historically has been, but recently has not been.

And so the average American watches this. You and I are in the weeds, right? We're talking about this issue all the time in -- over the last 48 hours. The average American is looking at this thing for 90 seconds. And they're saying, wait a minute, they found files over there. They found a server in Clinton's bathtub over there. They found files over here.

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What's the difference? And there is a very clear difference.

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There's a huge difference.

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But it has to be explained to the American people.

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I agree.

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No, I think that's a great point. And I think Bill Barr is absolutely right.

I -- I don't see this as being political. But you -- but, again, the point I keep going back to is, the -- the average person may -- may still think it's political. And a lot of people clearly do. And so if you're going to take unprecedented steps like this, as valid as they are, as valid as they are, then they have to, again, acknowledge the responsibility of showing all sides of it, showing how it's not political, not just saying, don't worry, it's not political.

They've done that before, and it -- it didn't work out so well. So they have the responsibility of showing how it isn't political to give that calm, to give that confidence and that trust in the system, so, when this goes forward, and if and when he is found guilty, there's trust that it was done the right way.

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Yes, well, look, I -- I'm -- I'm a big believer everyone has to be very straightforward and transparent about it and acknowledge the realities of the severity of these accusations and -- and these allegations and the fact that they -- again, they're very real. They're self-inflicted.

This is nothing like we've ever seen, anything we've seen before. And -- and there's very likely, I think, going to -- going to come down to some type of guilty verdict on -- on the president, at least on some of these charges. And so, again, we all have that responsibility.

Now, who takes that? Who wants to play political games? That's -- I -- I guess, everyone, unfortunately will -- will tend to do that, on both sides of the aisle, by the way.

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You just have to acknowledge both sides of this. You really do.

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It makes it more difficult.

But, look, my -- my message to all the candidates is very clear. You better come out. Just as you -- you acknowledge, you have to come out and -- and - - and they have to come out and acknowledge this is different. This is serious. Even -- if even half of this stuff is true, he's in real trouble. And it is self-inflicted.

And I just see too many of the candidates trying to walk around it: We'll see what happens.

To your point, you have to be clear and transparent. You're running against this guy. He's whooping you by 40 points. Everybody needs to come out in concert, so it's not just a Chris Christie hitting Donald Trump, or this candidate hitting Donald Trump. It is a party message. That's very, very important, because Donald Trump doesn't represent the Republican Party.

He doesn't rep -- he only represents himself. And so that -- that is shown when all the candidates come out equally and unequivocally talking about this issue in the right way.

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Absolutely.

Doug -- look, Doug is an incredible governor. I think he's going to be a great candidate. And he's hitting the ground running with -- with all the things that you need to, to be successful. And -- and a lot of the other candidates are -- are kind of turning their machines on and -- and starting to hit the ground.

So we'll see where it all goes, but I think Doug's a -- a great governor, and he's going to -- he's going to -- going to be a spark to watch this fall.

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Well, look, all -- all the candidates are a little bit different, but I think you have three candidates in a similar position, all great people, great candidates, Nikki Haley, Chris Christie, former Vice President Pence.

These are all folks that were on the Trump team, right? And now they're kind of off the team, and -- and they're all running against him. So they each just have to make their cases. They know how to run a ground game. They know how to talk to folks with a sense of authenticity about what it is and what has changed between then and now.

But each of those candidates are in, I think, a similar position and will have to make their case as to why they -- they not just -- or have earned the job, but what's going to spark them. What's going to spark them beyond 5, 6, 7 percent in the polls to get people excited this fall?

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